This is really good. Kind of where I see episode 1 of season 3 ending.
Oliver does something drastic after Felicity is hurt (kills someone as an act of revenge perhaps?). He once promised not to kill anymore to honor Tommy. He did it once before to save Felicity and she didn’t like causing that. If he does it after their date I can see her approaching him in this manner - not wanting to be the cause of another obsession (constantly protecting her at the cost of others’ lives), a blind spot for him (much like he eventually realized he had one when it came to Laurel) when others need him as the Arrow. To know he loves her that much - it scares her a bit. She wants him to be better than that - find another way to channel that side of him that still sometimes burns with obsession and anger. He has so much growing to do in the area of communication and figuring out how to live life in the balance of Oliver and the Arrow. For him he doesn’t want to be the reason she’s dragged even further into danger. And hence - a stalemate throughout the season while they remain close. They’re both giving each other room to grow as individuals while remaining close as friends.
It just makes me wonder - will she be the one to say “We need to talk…” during that episode or will he? I think it’d be more profound if it was Felicity. It’d give Oliver another nudge for the season in the struggle with his identity. It’s not saying no…it’s - not yet. We’re not ready.
Stephen just posted on FB that episode 2 of season 3 was a hard one due to subject matter. Hmmm. Hoping that has little to do w/ Felicity being hurt…
Maybe something with Thea he finds out? Maybe Sin? Could be what brings Sara back & what Colton says brings Roy & Sara together over something awful? Something happens to Sara?
Could also just be something awful that a criminal is doing that just scares/hurts Oliver to consider someone doing something Ike that to another person?
A few weeks ago, someone asked me what I thought the writers would do if Felicity didn’t appear and O/L was the one and only couple, etc.
I just had this idea today to explain the original plot and why things started the way it did.
We’re always talking about how they created O/L with a terrible…
Yeah, I mean if Sara had been their originally intended endgame, the girl from the Pilot would have been Caity (as planned) and we would have gotten more flashbacks to Oliver, Laurel, and Sara pre-island to explain why they cast her so early. (Because reshooting those scenes must have been annoying, which leads me to the conclusion that they only decided to bring back Sara as a result of Laurel not working so much).
I mean, yeah, the Lauriver background is wrong in SO MANY WAYS. GAH.
And like they could have salvaged it JUST A LITTLE by showing something, anything, about Oliver and Laurel that worked before the island - cause the way they framed it, either Laurel was an idiot to stay with Oliver or Oliver has serious delusion issues.
Meagan and Jules though did bring up an interesting point re: set-up versus pay-off and I think they intended Oliver’s relationship/love interest to be more about the how do they stay together in fight of challenges as opposed to how they together in the first place, hence giving Laurel and Oliver history (fucked up history, but still history).
Which makes me very interested in how S03’s going to play out, considering now they can do that with Oliver and Felicity and how/if they’re planning on taking plot lines originally planned for Lauriver and applying them to Olicity. This, I think, is one of the primary reasons I feel so strongly about the Oliver killing in Felicity’s name/Felicity not being able to handle + not being sold on his affection storyline - it’s very reminiscent of An Innocent Man, but would play it in such a different way, considering Oliver and Laurel have such different history (and I wonder, even, if the set-up for this season’s take on it was put into place with the last season’s Count episode?)
Did you see this?
Season 3 is all about identity. - Apparently, a number of characters will be questioning their identity. Guggenheim broke it down with each of the main characters and their identity questions:
Oliver - Can I be both Oliver and Arrow?
Felicity - Am I Oliver’s crush object or do I have my own identity outside of that. Do I exist outside the lair?
I think if this is an accurate spoiler (I saw only this report, so I’m not sure if we can take it seriously), the idea of Oliver placing in Felicity his moral compass on Felicity [“I don’t want to kill because I’m a hero now like she inspired me to be (we can’t forget Felicity was the one who gave Oliver the tools to be a hero all season), but I’ll kill in her name.”], it’s possible Felicity starts questioning her identity - which she started doing last season in 2x14. So, Felicity looking for it outside the lair, dating other man who are different from Oliver, is a way to distance herself from Oliver, find her sense of self that she seemed to lose and then she can come back to be with him because she understands herself better and what she is and what she isn’t.
I think it’ll be very interesting because Olicity’s life in so entwined that they got bits of each other and they can lose themselves in each other if they don’t do boundaries. If they’re gonna explore it before they are together together, the moment Olicity are an actual couple their emotional intimacy will be stronger, if you get what I mean.
Reading through that, yeah, I definitely agree that’s something that will be taken into question and be a driving part of this season (Felicity as both his moral compass and the one person he kills for). I wonder if their raw discussion will even be something along these lines:
Felicity: “I can’t be the exception for you, Oliver, not for me, I can’t accept you doing that - you’re a hero and you can find another way.”
Oliver: “I love you, if someone hurts you - tries to kill you - there is no other way, there is no choice for me to make.”
Felicity: “That’s - that’s not love Oliver, that’s revenge. I don’t think this (us) is such a good idea.”
I don’t think Felicity computes the idea that for Oliver love = keeping her safe (killing for her), which of course, still has her doubting his feelings/identity as that person enough to go forth and have a life outside of the lair - I wonder if that’s even part of what prompts her to go talk to Barry, someone else who liked her and is now a hero, to try and understand where Oliver’s coming from.
And Oliver will have to understand how to show his love in other ways, how to respect that she doesn’t want to be the exception to his no-killing rule, but that her pulling away doesn’t mean she’s rejecting him (or thinks that he’s a killer), that she’s pulling away because she loves him and wants what’s best for him and believes that this isn’t it. He needs to learn how to fight for her without fighting, to be Oliver without the Arrow taking over.
And definitely yes, once they deal with all these issues, they’re going to be so much stronger as an actual couple because they won’t be completely co-dependent on the other and they’ll know how to draw boundaries in terms of what they want vs. what the need in their relationship and their life and it could be SO GOOD.
I love this whole conversation and am in agreement with what’s said. This will be a season that starts with both admitting their feelings but realizing they aren’t sure who they are both as a part of team Arrow and personally apart from it as individuals. Both Oliver and Felicity have growth that needs to happen individually before they are ready for each other when it comes to communication, understanding how to fully respect and love each other in both roles as apart of Team Arrow (for Oliver in particular realizing that loving Felicity doesn’t mean he has to feel like he needs to kill whoever puts her in harm’s way) and in their personal lives away from that. How do we get to know each other, communicate and be together without bringing Team Arrow into that? I’m REALLY excited to see how Dig learning to balance life with Lyla and a coming baby with Team Arrow. I think it’ll be huge for Oliver AND Felicity to see and learn from what he does as a model and example for them.
I would love to see while they are not together for most of the season they take steps in getting to know each other - noticing little things, asking questions here and there to find out favorites, little tidbits of each others’ lives, etc.
All of this is building history that was never fully built on screen for Oliver and Laurel. I think that’s some of what’s made it hard to believe Oliver and Laurel belong together on top of just how messed up their history is because it’s not mentally or emotionally healthy even if it is in some DC versions of the comic how things play out in the end. That’s just something that if they wound up going that route I could never respect for both characters’ sake. Unhealthy. Likely some of the reason Stephen finally spoke with the writers about how Oliver was being written when it comes to women.
Asked by Anonymous
First, I apologize for taking so long to respond. Busy day today.
To answer your question, I think that a lot of Olicity fans are going into Season 3 with some pretty lofty expectations. While we’ve been graciously granted such a detailed glimpse into Season 3, I think some of you have missed a few subtle hints. Sure, we know that Felicity is the woman that will occupy Oliver’s heart all season. P.S. - THAT’S HUGE that they’ve given you that. HUGE! This was in part because there were still people unconvinced that what they saw at the end of Season 2 wasn’t fake. The EP’s, even GREG BERLANTI himself, did not have to stand up for Olicity and spell it out for people that didn’t “get it”. Although Stephen said “this season”, I have a feeling that Felicity will be the woman he loves as long as she’s on the show.
Love this. Totally agree. I didn’t necessarily want Olicity IN season 3. BUT with all this new info, we may have a preview of where we are headed long term. I personally still feel Oliver still has room for growth (he grew leaps & bounds in season 2!) in becoming a man who can fully appreciate what and who Felicity is (and others as well) and also communicate that well. We know he’s a man of few words that though he flies off the hinges sometimes. Felicity has room to grow further into who she is, growing in her confidence that she is more than just an EA/IT and who she is outside Team Arrow.
We are going to be on a high when it comes to Olicity for most of the first episode back and having some heartache by the end (EBR basically said it in a tweet). We have a feeling the writers/producers & Oliver/Felicity as characters know where their hearts truly lie for most of the season (and beyond). But a great story has it’s trials. We KNOW angst is coming. We can prepare ourselves for that NOW and with that knowledge accept the heartache, angst and know that in the end we will have a GREAT pay off.
Olicity is worth the angst & heartache. They deserve a great story. Plus - we know this season is about identity & who each character truly is. Knowing who you are on your own before you become a couple is huge. Stephen said 1 woman in Oliver’s life this season - Felicity. He knows where his heart is even if he feels at the moment they can’t be together. He doesn’t have any meaningless relationships this season (again…something Stephen said undermines what they will set up). The premiere and what’s involved will be the catalyst for both of them figuring out who they are and in the end being stronger for it when they finally embrace the opportunity to be together.
That’s a great story. It may be a long journey but it’ll be worth it. Bring on the angst because it’s all one step closer to bringing them together. Begin with the end in mind - we’ll have to remember that this season when it hurts at times. :-)
I love that Jensen and co are thinking through things like this. He knows the character so well after playing him for going on 10 seasons. Smart stuff. The little things and the details make it all come together.
"I don’t know what else to say to make you believe that I love you.”
“Oliver, I know—”
“You don’t know. If you knew, you wouldn’t tell me that you’re stopping us for my own good. You wouldn’t try to convince me that it’s a passing thing I’ll get over. It’s not a passing thing. Felicity, I’m in…
HEY THIS IS PERFECT AND EVERYTHING TO ME.
I need how much she means to him to scare her yeeeeeeeeees let this be the season of Oliver showing her that he doesn’t accept things (I think this is what Amell meant when he said Oliver having a fling would undermine what he says in the premiere)
THIS IS PERFECTION.
I love this. I really do think that she will be shocked at how much he loves her. He’s literally not said anything about the “I love you” for SIX MONTHS when we come back in the season premiere! SIX MONTHS he’s been around her, loving her, unsure of when/what to say. And BEFORE the “I love you” he loved her too! I mean…think about how she reacted to those 3 words just before he put the syringe in her hands and when he walked out (right before that commercial break when we were all hyperventilating along with her!!).
She was completely thrown off by his words. Whether it was planned or not, she could read him in that moment. She gave him an out on the island… She’s been left wondering, but never saying anything. She’s going to be hesitant. He’s going to have to prove it. Stephen’s words seem to point to him attempting to do that over the course of the season (though from afar and not vocalizing it after the incident when she’s hurt in the premiere). It may come in the form of saving her at one time or another, it may come in the form of some jealousy over Ray or in some quick biting words he says to cover up how he really feels in order to protect her but doesn’t mean… No matter what - he’s aware that she’s it for him. To her - that is unfathomable. Still unthinkable. A date? Ok. Tentative first step for her. Love of his life? Too much too soon.
I literally cannot wait for the moment when she finally has that lightbulb go off in her head and she see’s he’s all in and he’s been ALL IN since part way through season 2. How incredibly beautiful would this montage of moments be that she relives and sees as when he put her first in the little things, big things and that throughout this ENTIRE 3rd season…he had no flings, focused on himself and figuring out who he is (FOR HER - who he is FOR HER) and it all came back to her?
Identity as a theme for season 3? Oliver figuring out who he is (getting his sh*t together, a job, home, Arrow stuff) and who he can be for Felicity? Dig figuring out home life vs. Arrow life (and Oliver gleaning from it)? Felicity figuring out who she is these days both inside and outside Team Arrow?
It’s going to be beautiful. It’s going to hurt.
We had the opportunity to sit down with the cast and executive producers of Arrow at Comic-Con to talk about Season 3, and were grateful to report that there was a lot to talk about ahead of the third season of this excellent CW superhero drama. In fact, the roundtable interviews allowed us to compile a list of 31 things you might want to know about Arrow Season 3.**** SPOILERS
1. Season 3 is all about identity. - Apparently, a number of characters will be questioning their identity. Guggenheim broke it down with each of the main characters and their identity questions:
This is the best article!!! It’s must read. Each character’s identity crisis is laid out. Can I just point out this little tidbit?
Laurel - Am I Laurel, or Am I my sister?
- Okay. This freaking excites me. I write about Laurel a lot here but I’ll just pull the most important part:
Furthermore, I believe Laurel Lance has a love story on Arrow. The Arrow writers are telling a love story with Laurel Lance. There is one person who will influence her life more than any other person. One person who will be the catalyst, the touchstone in Laurel’s life. The person that will make Laurel want to become a hero. A love that is so deep, it is life changing. It’s just not with Oliver. It’s with her sister Sara. Sara Lance - The Canary. The sister bond these two women share is one of the most complex and deeply intense love stories of Arrow. I firmly believe, ultimately, it will be Laurel’s love for Sara that will be the love that changes her life. The love that makes her Black Canary. Not all love stories are romance stories either.
Laurel’s Identity Theme For S3 really makes me believe I may be on the right track. Everybody’s else’s themes are pretty on point too but I found Laurel’s the most interesting.
I totally agree! I’m really excited about where they seem to be heading with Laurel’s character and her journey to being Black Canary. Here’s hoping the writers do Laurel’s character justice this season (now that they’ve realized what does/does not work for her in this tv universe) and give Katie Cassidy some fantastic opportunities to shine. It’s been a long time coming!
This is a most excellent and succinct recap of all we’ve learned in the past week regarding season 3. I love it.
What stood out in particular is the mention of Dig and Oliver having a bit of conflict (Stephen saying it’s Oliver trying to look out for Dig as he is going to be a dad) and then Dig being an EXAMPLE to Oliver about how to balance the superhero life they have with Team Arrow AND his personal life with Lyla and Baby Diggle.
I think that will have a huge impact on Oliver and I love the idea of Oliver watching Dig with purpose and taking nuggets of wisdom from him in that area. God knows he wants it and will need it as he struggles with how to be Arrow and wanting to be Oliver with Felicity.
Asked by Anonymous
Honestly? I think the biggest mistake the writers made when it came to Laurel was that they were writing an idea, not a person.
They had this image in their head of who Laurel Lance SHOULD be - upright, honorable, beautiful, tenacious, a seeker of justice, someone who looks out for the little guy, faithful, and forgiving. That’s a LOT to put on any one person. And they tried to get that all across straight off the bat, and what we ended up getting, instead of a real, living, breathing character, was a two dimensional concept of their vision for Laurel instead.
They didn’t give her faults - she was lofty and untouchable, and because of that, unrelatable to most.
(Btw, here’s where I developed an issue with the viewers, when it came to Laurel. Because she was unrelatable, people decided that she was annoying/boring/stuck up/pretentious, etc, which was never true, People just found it hard to connect to her.)
I think they caught on by the end of season one where the issue had been, and they tried to balance that out. Only they went to far. Where Laurel had been unrelatable before, by virtue of her virtue, in season two, the writers made it worse by sending her on a complete downward spiral, giving her faults and problems beyond what the average person experiences, making it even MORE difficult for the audience to connect to her than before.
But here’s the thing. Even though her character was so flat when compared to the other characters, all those traits they gave her? She still has those - they’re still a part of her. I love Laurel for her dedication to justice, for her fashion sense, for her willingness to put herself in danger to save someone else, and for her kick ass fight moves.
What ultimately humanized her, I think, was Sara. Because finally, there was something pretty much everyone understood - a sister relationship, and the love they share despite everything that happened. Seeing Laurel interact with her sister, just be with her, go to dinner, hang out at Verdant, and later seeing Laurel be the big sister Sara so badly needed when she was down, was what helped people begin to relate to her so much more.
I’m excited to see where her character goes this year now that the writers and viewers have stumbled upon that side of her. I think this year is going to be great. I think moving her from being a romantic possibility for Oliver to being a close friend and partner is going to be incredible - people will be able to enjoy her without having to ignore the elephant in the room. She’ll get better dialogue (less melodramatic), more interesting interactions as an equal to Oliver, and possibly take control of her life and get her agency back.
I think something that also fell flat with Laurel and how she was perceived/received by the audience was (and I know, beating a dead horse here) her relationship with Oliver.
Because the writers set her up, as you said, as this beautiful, tenacious, bright, do-gooder and seeker of justice - and I liked the Laurel of the pilot, I would have gladly spent time with her. But then the writers also said that this woman, this fantastic woman is not only supposed to be the match for our present-day hero, but somehow was in love with Oliver while he was still a raging asshat, while he was cheating on her with his sister.
And those ideas were just not compatible.
How could she be so aware, so on-point in the present and have been so not in their relationship before? How could we root for this woman knowing she had forgiven Oliver for cheating on her with her sister, for being in essence, someone making all the right choices - law school, expecting a solid relationship, tight with her family - and insisting on seeing the good in someone who, every time we saw him, seemed so awfully bad (and we all agree Oliver Queen pre-island was a little shit).
I think that, in a large part, also led to a lot of the disconnect with Laurel’s character. Being told what she had done and seeing her in the present - those two sides didn’t mesh and instead of reconciling those pieces and helping creating a stronger character, it just made her fall even more flat.
I have to agree here - the writers were writing an idea to start with. The “idea” of being with Laurel is what kept Oliver alive on the island - getting back to her was his way to survive. So when he returned, they were attempting to write the idea of Laurel that Oliver remembered combined with someone who was kind of pissed off at him for sleeping with her sister but it never took off well.
I’m sinceriously (ahhh…Captain’s words!) hoping they give Laurel a fantastic story line and set up for her Black Canary arc as they bring in Wildcat. She (character and Katie Cassidy) deserves it. Letting the way too complicated/hurtful/kind of sick and twisted (bouncing between sisters?!!) past that Laurel and Oliver have be the past and moving them both forward as friends/business partners (he catches ‘em, she prosecutes ‘em) is a great way to go.